Stephen: All right, Lloyd, man. Hey, nice to have you on here.
Lloyd: Yeah. Great to be here.
Stephen: Yeah. So I think it’s actually a small world. I kept seeing you from local people that I ran into. Not local to me, but local to you, people from Toronto.
Stephen: And I just kept seeing you pop up.
Mahmoud was always talking about you saying what a cool guy you were. But then someone outside of that network reached out to me and he said, Hey, you should check out this guy, Lloyd, my friend Spyros.
Stephen: And that kind of blew me away. I was like, man.
So your your network has really started to talk about you. And I always think that’s an underrated thing. It’s just like getting out there, getting people to talk about you. I don’t know if that’s something that you do strategically, but I think it’s something that people underrate.
Lloyd: I think it’s a natural result of you building your tribe and having great value constantly being spread out from your socials and from your outreach and all that stuff. I wouldn’t necessarily say I intentionally went about trying to create this word of mouth or buzz, but it’s no surprise that it’s happening just because it’s the natural conclusion, I would think. As to what some of the efforts are that have had but it’s a very pleasant surprise, I would say.
Stephen: Yeah, that’s cool. And that’s why I’m always looking for those kinds of things. When I’m talking to people, it’s what kind of sets that person apart when you have people talking about you, that’s always a good thing.
Lloyd: Sure. For sure. And whenever people talk about you, they’re putting their own reputation on the line, right? Like they’re not gonna make any referrals or intros or say Hey, I love this person unless they actually mean it because if someone takes their word for it, and it’s not a good fit, then what happens is that the person who made the introduction now it looks bad.
So the way that I think about it, whenever someone is willing to make an introduction or talk about you there, to an extent putting their own tastes online, or they’re putting their own reputation online, to an extent. No, I’m very appreciative of what it takes for people to actually make these intros and to talk about me, and yeah.
Whenever I do the same for other people, I really mean it. It comes from a place of yeah, this person’s amazing at what they do. And I want to talk about it. I want to share, because I know that if my friends were exposed to the same person, they would also see the same value that I got.
That’s how I feel about it.
Stephen: Yeah, no, I appreciate that. So I guess that’s a good place to start. So one of the things I help people with is building their business without referrals and networking, but it’s obviously an important part of business. So how do you, like when you’re helping someone get going?
Like, how do you help them negotiate that, how do you help somebody go from getting referrals or building a business off of referrals and networking to doing something else? What’s the thought process there?
Lloyd: Yeah, it’s funny. I love referrals and I love word of mouth, but to me, they are simply a cherry on top.
They cannot be the most reliable, relied upon source to generate new business because even the best people at generating referrals are doing it in a way that has a lot of predictability and they’re building it into a system. But when you’re first starting out, you don’t have a system for referrals.
It’s just coming in an ad hoc manner. It’s unpredictable to an extent you may enter a week and generate five new, highly qualified opportunities, and three of them close, from referrals, and then the next three weeks, nothing. And that is the feast and famine that you run into a lot with these coaches and consultants and business owners that are overly dependent on that type of source.
So first and foremost, someone who’s in that paradigm has to just realize, you know what, you can’t continue relying on referrals. A lot of people don’t want to admit it because maybe they’re at the five to 10 K mark per month and they’ve been doing okay and some months it’s amazing and sometimes it’s bad and they just don’t want to change because change is hard.
The first step is to realize, no, you’re giving yourself a ton of stress because you have no idea what your income level is going to be on the month to month. And what you need is predictability. Once you admit, yes. Okay, fine. My net worth is limited. I’m not, I’m not gonna be able to scale if I don’t move beyond this, then we can start talking about the tactics and the strategies.
The mindset is the first thing. That being said, once they admit it, then let’s build some systems more or less. Like I know that your pod is all about tactics and systems. So the systems really will be determined by who that particular entrepreneur’s audience is because let’s say you’re selling to, I don’t know, music teachers, I just made that up.
Let’s say you sell a program or a software or a thing for music teachers around the world. There are certain channels that are gonna work really well because those are the channels that music teachers congregate.
And let’s say you’re selling to VPs of marketing at startups at well-funded series A startups. That would then dictate a different type of approach. And your strategy is more or less gonna shift depending on who your audience is and where they spend the time. But to me, sales marketing is actually quite simple. You go to where your audience spends their time, and then you speak to them in the way that they need to be spoken with.
And you deliver a message that gets them to want to take action. This is obviously dumbing it down and making it a super 10,000 foot view. But whether that be, Oh, it’s LinkedIn, because that’s where they spend their time or, Oh, that’s Facebook, because that’s where this audience has their time go.
Find where these people congregate and then send the messages. This could be outbound reach outs. This could be like good old fashioned virtual door to door knocking. I used to do door knocking when I was 19 to pay through school. If you’re emailing people or sending people LinkedIn DMS, is that not just door knocking? Virtually it’s the same thing.
Or if you’re paying for ads, it’s the same way, you’re going to the channel that they spend the time. You’re getting in front of them consistently. Or if it’s content, you share the content where they spend time and depending on how they engage you, then yeah. Build a relationship. So it’s all the same sales marketing, go to where they are.
Put out your message. See who responds, follow up, booking into a call and close a deal.
Stephen: Yeah, that makes sense. And it is simple, but what is it that you think gets in people’s way on that? What gets in the way of going through that process?
Lloyd: Yeah. It’s so funny that people overcomplicate things in a way, which to me is totally unnecessary.
I think it’s great that we have podcasts and like a trillion different blogs, digital marketing, and it’s super informative. And a lot of the things that you can learn new, frankly, without ever spending any money. But I think the downside is that a lot of these materials and assets make it seem as though the world of digital marketing is way more complicated than it needs to be.
People just catch shiny object syndrome. And they move from thing to thing from strategy to strategy without ever truly investing in a strategy and digging deep into it and making it work. They’ll try for two weeks and then they’ll be like, eh, it’s not really working, I’ll move on to the next thing, which inevitably doesn’t get results or they try too many different things simultaneously, meaning they do none of those things.
The reality is the people who do really well, especially in the beginning, it’s because they’re focused, they just do one or two things that are frankly, way more simple than you probably initially would think it needs to be. but they do it and it works. Like my first five clients came from me just like DMing people on LinkedIn and people tell me, it’s wait, what?
That’s, what do you mean? You didn’t have a webinar. You didn’t have paid ads running. You didn’t have a podcast. You didn’t have an email list. No, my first $20,000 in revenue probably just came purely from messaging people on LinkedIn. It doesn’t need to be complicated.
If you’re at 50,000 a month, then sure. You’re going to need an email list. You’re going to need some of this other stuff. Where I am now I have chatbots. I have a sales team. I have webinar funnels, multiple webinar funnels. I have automations up the wazoo. I have all that stuff, but we’re talking about someone who’s starting out.
Find the one channel that works and just hit it again and again, until it’s making you a ton of income and you have the ability to do more. And even then I would say, don’t try to do more until that first channel is automated and offloaded. I didn’t move on from doing LinkedIn until my LinkedIn strategy and process was so refined that I could do it with my eyes closed.
Lloyd: Because if you still have to think and strategize and be very reliant on your gut feel to make the channel work, then frankly, you still need to work on it before you get to focus on other stuff. Because all of those things that I had just mentioned, will make it hard for you to actually make any other channel, subsequent channel anyway, successful. Because every time you add a new channel, you have to figure out, okay, what’s the type of content and the copy that works here? What’s the social norms in this channel? And how does that impact the way that I message, like how all of these different things that change from channel to channel you got into then refigure out.
And to adopt a new channel and to really make it work, it takes some time. So if you haven’t even fully figured it out and autopiloted out your first channel, how are you going to possibly make the second one good? I don’t attach new channels to my business until the ones that I’m already doing really well are good.
It’s such an addition by subtraction. People think they need to do way too many things. And they think within each thing, it needs to be way more complicated than it needs to be.
Stephen: Yeah. That’s interesting. So when you went onto LinkedIn, you literally just started looking for people aand DMing and then creating a conversation.
Where are you creating content in the feed or anything like that?
Lloyd: So I do that now, but in the beginning, even just doing both outbound messaging and content creation, I think is a lot for someone who’s actually starting out.
Now, if you figure out outbound and you figure out, here’s how I can find the right people, here’s how I can message them. Here’s how I can get them into a sales call after I message them and then close on the phone. If you get that sorted and you have it like 85% comfortable, then yeah. Start working on content. Because the reality is just like what I was saying earlier, content is an entirely different game, same platform.
Sure. But like with content then you got to think about, okay, how do I get engagement? How do I create good content? What’s the frequency of sharing content? How do I distribute it? It’s yeah, same channel, but now you’re looking at an entirely different level of complexity. You haven’t even solved outbound yet.
So figure that out first. Then the flip side, same thing. if you really want to make content work, then do that before trying to solve outbound. Because with outbound, then you got to figure out list building and you got to figure out your copywriting. You’ve got to figure out all this other stuff. In the beginning, you only have yourself, you only have minimal bandwidth. There’s no reason to make life or business more hard than it needs to be.
Stephen: And were you building when you first started out, were you actually building a list or was it more just, where are you keeping track of each person that you would reach out to?
Lloyd: Yeah, so that’s where I think, I really benefited from my tech background cause I’ve been in sales teams and technology oriented organizations for a long time. So I came in new and a ton of tools that can help you automate. So like I came in knowing Sales Navigator, which, for LinkedIn is like one of the better tools to build your lists.
And I knew how to filter. I knew how to find the right people. Going in. Yeah.
Stephen: So you would just use Sales Navigator to build the list? Do you like using the lead save and all that kind of stuff?
Lloyd: The process is pretty granular, so I’m not going to go into extreme depth here, but more or less, I know who my customer avatar is.
I know who I’m looking for. I know how long they’ve been in business. I know the size of their companies. I know the keywords to look for, I know the LinkedIn groups that they’re spending time in. So that’s all you really need to know to start building your targeting. And then once I have that, I have a process of reaching out to people.
A lot of people do it manually. I don’t like doing almost anything manually because it is too time consuming. So luckily from my tech background, I realized, and I knew that it was a possibility to automate a lot of the outreach. So I knew what things to automate, but I also think that I also knew what things not to automate, because it’s a fine line.
You don’t want to automate everything because then it feels very inhuman. And although it can work, the analogy that I’d use is if you want it to say, find a date for Saturday night, would you just go down the street and hit on the next a hundred people that you thought were attractive?
Like you could do that. And I’m sure you would get a date or two numbers game shotgun. But is that the most efficient way to do it? Probably not. There’s probably more intelligent ways of doing that. So sure. Automate bits and pieces of it, but then realize that there are portions that require you to be a human and require personalization.
And at those portions, be willing to do it until you can hire a human to do it for you.
Stephen: I think that’s one of those places where people get stuck. So how do you draw the line when you’re first starting out? Do you do all the messages one-on-one where you’re putting personalization in the first message, or are you doing some automation to at least make the connections and then maybe send an initial message and then you take over from there?
It’s like, how do you guide people on that?
Lloyd: So actually I would say that if you truly are starting out and you don’t even know whether or not your offer resonates yet, you don’t even realize, or know if your audience cares about your offer. If that’s the case, you can actually send a fairly canned message because this canned message won’t be for the purpose of getting sales calls. What you need to do in this stage is just get customer feedback and discovery. So you can more or less send a canned message saying, Hey, I’m beginning this new business. I’m trying to help insert avatar type, achieve insert transformation.
I noticed that you were super experienced in this industry. So I just wanted to have a quick conversation with you and ask a couple questions so that I can understand if I’m heading down the right direction. This is like a reasonably canned message. But because of the fact that you’re not trying to sell anything, because you’re embedding a little bit of flattery and because you’re like saying, Hey, I would just want your advice.
This works really well. And the goal here though is obviously you being so new at your business, you just need to ask them a couple of questions to understand if your offer even makes sense. If the problems that you’re solving for are even the right problems to solve or to begin with. So these are some of the people that you can still close because you might get lucky and you realize, Hey, this person who agreed for this interview, actually he does have all the problems that you are able to solve for through the interview, the discovery conversation, they just realized wait, I can totally use this. And that’s actually how I closed my first couple of deals, where I was doing a bit more of a feedback or interview style conversation.
And then it just naturally evolved into wait, hold on. So you’re saying that. You can fix this problem. And then it’s like stumbling on the sale a bit, but when you do it at scale and you’re utilizing automation and you also have a really specific way of carrying the sales call or the discovery call into a sales call, if the fit is there, then you can actually, build a process where a lot of these people still end up signing on, even though your initial approach wasn’t salesy approach. This may be reasonably automated though.
Stephen: Even as you get going, is that a good way to continue to create conversations, just because yeah, I don’t know how, I’d be interested in your feedback on this. But you get so many DMS from different people and when someone starts off with a pitch, obviously people still accept it and people are making money off of that.
But people more and more are getting turned off to that instant kind of pitch. So even once you’ve got, so let’s say you’ve gotten past that point, you’ve found a product market fit, and you’re starting to send those first couple of messages. Like how delicate are you with that initial message? Is it still preliminary or are you still…
Lloyd: Eventually you gotta pivot. Eventually you can’t use that message because it signals the wrong things. Like it signals that you’re new and that definitely makes it harder for you to win some clients. It signals that your offering is still not fully developed, which makes certain things harder. So it works well when that’s true, that what you’re offering actually is under developed then yeah, what are you going to do, lie about it? I hate when people begin a new business that they maybe have like minimal experience in and they’re already trying to sell it as though, Oh, this is the best thing in the world I’m going to help you achieve X, Y, and Z is going to be great.
Stephen: And then, what’s interesting too, the experience that I’ve been having recently is like the more realistic you make it, and the more you get away from promising things that you can’t promise, and the more you’re open with, Hey, I’m going through this process, I’m building it out. I’m doing everything I can, yeah, it sounds, it just sounds different. So people are open to it. They believe you.
Lloyd: Honesty is rare. Like when something feels or sounds too good to be true, sometimes it is, a lot of the times it is. Whereas when people intentionally expose vulnerabilities or flaws, they are taken to be like, oh, that’s a person.
That’s like a real person. And it’s the same thing, from like human to human, but it’s also the same thing from like business to business. We can see that we haven’t done it. And so we have consciousness so we can understand just like feeling the vibe of someone. And that is especially the case when you’re on a sales call to a degree, you can understand that in just like the DMS and the messages, but once someone’s on a sales call, if they’re new and they’re trying to convince you that they know all this stuff, you can pretty clearly see right through them. So to your earlier question, like how long would you maintain the strategy?
I would say to the degree that like, yeah, you actually get to product market fit and you probably want to move off. And it’s not just for the signal, a reason. And the optics that I just talked about. There’s another downside to this method and the downside is the lead quality because what’s going to happen is that because you’re just asking for advice, a lot of people are gonna say yes, whether or not they’re a good fit for you. And eventually you’re going to have so many people that are down to talk, with a huge percentage of them not being a good fit, that you’re just going to be sick and tired of taking calls that are for sure not going to go anywhere because you gotta be judicious with your time.
Where is it being spent? You don’t want to jump on calls with a bunch of people who are never going to buy. It’s a waste of your time. So eventually you want to actually build in mechanisms to disqualify so you aren’t jumping on every single sales call. You want to have calls with people that already know what you do and already are confirmed to have the problems that you’re trying to solve. Already have intent to buy or intent to at least change their business or their situation.
And you’re not going to find those people if you’re just asking for advice. And that’s why you move into a different stage of your messaging, where you’re being more proactive in trying to figure out like, Hey, do you actually have these problems? Do you actually fit my ideal persona avatar?
Do you actually have a desire for this transformation? And you would only book the calls of people that are checking off these boxes, and then you will probably have less calls in total unless you ramp up your lead generation engine, which we can talk about. But for the same number of reach outs, you’re going to probably have less meetings booked with this new approach.
But conversation quality is way better. And that way, if your average conversation quality’s way better, your conversion rate and your close, it’s going to go up. And if you can just turn on the faucet and get more leads in the calendar, because maybe your total input of leads being messaged is wider, or maybe you’re utilizing inbound content to widen the incoming lead flow. There’s a number of things that you can do, right? But in general, you want to make sure that your call quality is consistently good. Otherwise you’re going to be sub 10% closing rate. When in reality, even if you were just a moderately good closer, if your calls are always with the right people, you can make a 25-35% win rate.
If you’re a combination of a great closer, and you have consistently the right leads that you’re talking to, there’s no reason why you’re not able to hit the 35-50% close rate. So that’s the pivot that people need to make eventually, when they are past the part of market fit and they want to start being more intelligent with the way that they’re scaling their business.
Stephen: Yeah. Cool.
So yeah, I would like to talk about ramping up and then also the inbound content. Cause I saw you have a lot of that long form content that I think is great. And I want to talk about that, but one last question on the outbound messages, I have seen an influx of at least the people that reach out to me and, I usually respond fairly well to it.
It’s just like the audio or the video messages. and I don’t think you can really automate those. I don’t think. Maybe you can, but have you experimented with any of those or are you, is it mostly text-based or how are you thinking about that?
Lloyd: I do mostly text-based because to your point, it’s hard to scale that.
Although if you have a sales rep, it’s not a bad idea, I think to a degree, if you’re a solopreneur. Some of that stuff, although there are gains to be had, no one’s arguing that a voicemail works. No, one’s arguing that a video clip works. It’s like the trade off from time to value. So yeah, I can’t necessarily say to anyone don’t do it, or do it.
I would say that the strategy in and of itself definitely works. You have to be conscientious of the amount of extra time that it’s gonna take. And you gotta maybe just run the experiment to see if the additional conversion rate that you are going to achieve with it is worth the amount of additional time that it takes, which is now time that you don’t get to have in product development, which is time that you don’t get to have on sales calls.
So what is it? The trade off? Everyone’s got to figure it out themselves. If you have a sales team, It’s a different story.
Stephen: And then on that, real quick, before we move on, cause you mentioned something else, that conversion rate, right? So are you literally tracking like how many messages and how many people you reach out to?
And then how many, how often that converts into a further conversation?
Lloyd: Correct. Like I’m tracking the amount of people that I’m reaching out to every single day. I’m tracking. What percentage of them are connecting, I’m tracking. What percentage of them reply on the first message, on the second message, in general?
And I’m tracking all this stuff and luckily, like I’m not doing it manually. I have a tool. We talked earlier about automation. That’s part of why the automations work really quite well. And there was a question that you asked earlier that I didn’t get a chance to answer. We just tangentially, veered off, but you were saying like, what parts do you personalize?
What parts do you not personalize? The connection message, I almost always will personalize, but it’ll be done via automation. Here’s the trick you don’t necessarily want to personalize based off of that person’s unique profile. What we want to actually personalize off of is the list that the person is on, because let’s say you build a list of say 500 people and they’re all from one city and they all are working in a really specific industry.
Or at a company size of a certain amount or all these other traits instead of personalizing based off of that person. But instead you can personalize based off of the unique characteristics that are shared across everyone in that list. They’re never going to know because if they hear, Hey, I was connecting with other amazing sales leaders in Toronto, really great to see that you’ve been working at your company for two or three years now.
And that seems so personalized, but the reality is you can send like 500 people that same message and It’ll be purely because the list is of only people that are sales leaders in Toronto that have been at that company for two or three years. They’ll never know. You can personalize based off of that.
Stephen: And, have you tried not sending a message at all? Cause I sometimes run across people talking about, if there’s a message at all, they expect a pitch.
Lloyd: So, people are cynical. I would never not send a message. I would never not send a message. You can test it and see what happens.
I don’t think it’s going to go well. I personally, it’s different now cause I have a sales rep managing my inbox. He’ll more or less bring everyone in, but I tend to just not, I neither accept nor ignore people with the zero message. They just stay pending forever typically.
So you track how many people you connect with? How many people accept and then how many people reply to the first and second maybe third message. Do you go that far?
Lloyd: it’s not as, okay, so the first message reply. Yes. And then just like replies in general and then I’ll segment that by campaign.
Cause I run multiple campaigns. Depending on the list that I’m going after. And then each list we’ll get a separate copy as I was alluding to before as well. And yeah, all of that stuff is tracked from campaign to campaign and then it is very much assisted with technology. But then there’s a lot of human elements as well.
And that’s what I, my sales team doing for me.
Stephen: Very cool.
So then, Let’s talk about ramping up. So how do you go about that? What’s the next step after you figure these things out, how are you actually ramping up? Cause you think you’ve mentioned you’re doing like 50 K a month now.
Lloyd: So yeah, so the ramp up, there’s a lot of different ways to do it. There isn’t one way to scale. And this also comes back to my earlier point, which is who is our audience? Because that might impact the way in which you ramp. Do you ramp by adding an additional channel? For example, for me, I was on LinkedIn.
I made outbound work and then I just went to Facebook. But in theory, you could have easily just gone on LinkedIn, made outbound work. And then instead of going on Facebook, you could have just inbound on LinkedIn instead of just outbound and combined inbound and outbound LinkedIn together. Or you could have just continued with outbound on LinkedIn without adding any channel or without adding inbound, but just increasing the amount of reach outs by adding like additional accounts, right? Because one LinkedIn account, you can only send out between 80 to a hundred messages a day. That’s your ceiling or else. LinkedIn is going to put you in LinkedIn jail.
Stephen: Like connections or messages.
Lloyd: Connection requests. If you send out more than like a hundred new connection requests a day, you’re gonna get in trouble.
So there you go. That’s three different, entirely different ways of scaling, increasing your outbound. Or keeping your outbound messaging the same, but adding in battling thin or just moving to another channel entirely. So what strategically makes the most sense for you, into consideration your audience, into consideration your skillset, into consideration your resources?
So there isn’t one way to necessarily do it, but obviously what got you to, say, 10 K per month, isn’t going to get you to 25 K per month. And this is why I want to work with my clients. I ended up needing to look at their specific skill set and their audience and their offering, all this stuff, because then I can build something a little bit more specific to them in terms of, okay what’s like the best way for you to scale?
Because there’s so many ways of doing it. What’s the 80-20 rule? What’s the lowest hanging fruit? What would get you the most results for the least amount of effort, knowing that 10 things could work. But out of those 10 things, one or two, probably going to work easier or faster or cheaper or better in general.
Stephen: And then how to keep them from being distracted when they go on these channels. And they’re seeing all this other stuff going on.
Lloyd: That’s another thing as well. Like the mindset. How do you not end up simultaneously trying to start a podcast and also starting to do SEO and then dialing into paid ads?
Like how do you not fall into that trap? The same thing applies for when you’re scaling. Okay. Your initial channel worked. It’s getting you to five, 10 K a month or whatever the arbitrary stat is. You’ve now built onto autopilot. You have now earned the right to add an additional layer of marketing, whether it be outbound or inbound, whether it be on Facebook and LinkedIn.
But now that you’ve added this additional thing, in the same way that the first channel required you to be just like super focused, the second channel does as well. You don’t get to solve your first channel and then add four more. Because they know you just one fixed, autopilot it, make it really easy without needing to open your eyes to do it. You can still do it.
And the second one, now, you’re starting from scratch again, where you’ve got to really think, okay, how does this thing work now? How do I reverse engineer this thing? If it’s LinkedIn, like I said, inbound on LinkedIn is very different from outbound on LinkedIn. So I’ve got to figure out like, how does this thing work?
It’s Facebook. Oh, okay. Different channel, different rules, different game. How does this thing work?
Stephen: Yeah. And let’s talk a little bit about that. Cause I think on Facebook, maybe tell me a little bit about your strategy there. Cause I think you’re doing outbound and inbound there. The one thing that I noticed, I got reconnected with you on Facebook.
Cause I originally got connected to you through LinkedIn and I saw you over there. And then when Spyros messaged me, then I got into your group. I was just curious what you’re doing. And then I saw that long form content that you’re doing those really long posts that went into great depth of what your story was, basically, what you’ve been doing. So tell me a little bit about how you’re thinking through Facebook.
Lloyd: So, a lot of people just do classic outbound on Facebook. I don’t love it. There’s pros and cons. The pros are like, just like any other outbound, the pros are that you can reach out to a certain number of people every single day.
You can control the volume and a percentage of them are going to reply back. But like the downside is that Facebook is just not built for that type of approach. Like A, you can’t really send that many friend requests or connection messages on Facebook. On LinkedIn, you can get it with 80 to a hundred. On email you can do hundreds. On LinkedIn, if you try to do more than 50 you’ll definitely get in trouble and even 50 is pushing it. Like you gotta ramp up to 50. So Facebook is less forgiving in terms of your volume. And if you have low volume, outbound tends to not work that well on Facebook.
Stephen: And when you say forgiving, like what’s the punishment?
Lloyd: They freeze your account for two days. And then if you, if you’re a repeat offender, It’s only gonna get worse. LinkedIn’s the same way. If you’re a repeat offender, they’ll just make your freezes, worse and worse until they just, they take your account away for months, which happened to a friend of mine who funnily enough is a LinkedIn coach.
So he should have known better. And he’s obviously learned from his mistakes. But he was getting all of this business from LinkedIn and he overdid it and got frozen. And then he more or less just tanked his revenue because all of his clients were coming from that one source, which is obviously going to tell you that diversification of lead channels is nice.
Don’t worry about that until you really solve the first one. It’s something that you can think about in the long term. Something that I always think about, diversifying where my clients are coming from, but he is a prime example of overdoing one channel without really acknowledging the rules that need to be acknowledged, and then getting in trouble and being like, just that exposed.
Stephen: And it’s interesting, too, because I think if, If you think about it in terms of rules and how many you can reach out to and all that stuff, it starts to get a little bit, I think it almost takes you away from what the point is, which is like providing value. if you’ve, I feel if you focus on value and that’s the message that’s getting across, it’s better, I think it makes your intentions better, but I also think that it actually makes you act differently.
Lloyd: I would say your intention should never be to just focus on the rules. Like the rules are purely there as like a background layer of awareness so that you don’t get in trouble. But then the intention should always be more about value. Yeah. So that’s what I would say. The value should come first as to your point.
That being said, what I was saying about Facebook earlier is that yeah, like outbound can work and some people can make it work. But there’s inherent flaws to doing that type of process on Facebook. And also Facebook as a channel is not really, it’s not socially known as a place to do bizdev. So if you’re, I want to do bizdev on Facebook and you’re talking to someone who’s never experienced getting a sales pitch on Facebook, they’re going to be very confused.
On LinkedIn you can. It’s fine-ish because it’s a professional network. So it’s built into the fabric of the platform that like, sure, it’s not necessarily the best thing in the world to get pitched on LinkedIn, but it’s also sensible. Whereas on Facebook, especially if you’re selling to a, B to C audience and some of my clients are selling the B2C audiences.
I have clients that are running companies that serve parents and their children to help them get into a specific type of private school. I have clients that are helping people overcome celiac disease. If that’s your audience and you’re just cold DMing them, it’s very jarring. Yeah, so you can get away with it if you’re selling to a very businessy audience on Facebook. If you’re selling to founders of SAAS companies or agencies, okay, so in that case, you can probably get away with it a little bit more because those people are also pitching on Facebook. So they understand the game, but like most niches who are unaware of the game being played, they’re going to be very confused when you pitch them. So that’s something to keep in mind for people, assuming their niches are not the typical businessy niches that you can get away with this on.
Stephen: Yeah. No, that makes sense. So then, okay. So then how does the outbound work, how are you going about it?
Lloyd: The way that I do it and the way that I recommend all my clients do it is to utilize a hybrid inbound, outbound model, where you are attracting people with your content. And then once you attract them, you then begin the conversation. And because of the fact that they already came to you and because they said, hey, this is a great piece of content.
They liked it. They commented, they shared it. They added you as a friend, they do any number of things that more or less signal that they liked and appreciated your work. Then starting that conversation with them becomes a hell of a lot easier. And that’s what happens for me because like you alluded to before.I share these long ass posts on Facebook groups that I know contain my audience. If I was to just send cold friend requests to them, I’m sure a certain percentage of them would accept.
And I’m sure if I reached out to those same people, a certain percentage of them would then reply, but it’s not going to be that much. Whereas now, because they already know who I am and they signaled that they liked my stuff, when I send them friend requests, they’re gonna accept it. And when I DM them, they’re going to be like, Hey, yeah, I saw your post.
It was great. And then from there, the conversation kind of flows organically into disqualifying them, or qualifying them for a phone call. Me booking them into a meeting. If I think that they’re worth it, me getting them into my Facebook group, which then further nurtures them. Or at the minimum, maybe there’s just not a good fit right now.
And I just leave it alone, and who knows, I’ll be continuingly nurturing them with my own personal content on my profile and my group, and maybe they’ll come back later. So this is in my mind, like a way better process with much higher conversion rates, getting you warmer leads that are more excited to talk to you instead of doing BizDev that feels like you’re pulling a baby’s tooth out.
That’s my approach.
Stephen: Yeah. That makes sense. Cool. I think we’ve alluded to what you do, but explain exactly what you do for everybody and how you’re unique and how you go about it.
Lloyd: Yeah. So what I focus with my clients on is helping them scale their businesses organically, but in a scalable way. And typically when I talk with people, they think that organic isn’t scalable, they think that it has to be manual. It has to be painful. It has to be time consuming. Couldn’t be further from the truth. Like I’ve scaled my company up pretty significantly. I’m like, we’ll definitely break 50 K this month.
And yeah, it’s only been 14 months of us operating. 14 months ago I was literally at zero. Just quit my job. And the speed at which we scaled, and more importantly, the profit margins being at 90% plus right now, because of the fact that I’m not spending on any paid ads, that everything is variable, cost is a very low expense, to maintain a system that I built, okay.
This can be done for a lot of businesses. Especially folks that are selling a higher ticket offer, which is also what I specialize in. I only really work with clients that are selling something moderately priced. So a couple of thousand dollars and up, we can make that work. So clients come to me from all stages, though, right?
If you’re coming to me from zero, I do have some programming and an offer, which would help you get to just the 10 K per month. And it’s going to still incorporate some automation. It’s going to incorporate some content stuff. It’s gonna incorporate outbound marketing, some inbound marketing.
But a lot of it is also figuring out your product market fit. A lot of it is helping them validate that the offer is worth it. It’s not just about sales marketing here. It’s also about the offer. It’s also about making sure that your operations are set up. I wouldn’t want someone to try to scale. If they don’t even have a product worth scaling.
So with my offer there, that’s my program called The Road to 10 K. I serve specifically people that are in their early days and they want to get off the ground with organic strategy, build the foundations for future success. And then my flagship offer, which is where frankly, most of my business comes from is my more intensive one-on-one engagement.
Where I personally work with my clients. I build them. Their 30-90-180 day roadmap so that they can scale to 50 K and beyond organically, once again. And this includes stuff like really scaling your content strategy, really building all the automations, which enable you to do organic at scale, content, but also the outbound engine.
It’s not just one or the other by people who just rely on inbound and content marketing alone. They’re going to grow slowly because the truth is most people are not willing to take the initiative of submitting a demo request or asking for help. If all they’ve seen is a piece of content. Usually people are not that proactive.
What they might do though, is they might like it and enjoy it. And in the back of their head, tell themselves, Hey, I could work with that person one day. And then they just sit on their hands for six months before they actually feel like they want to do it. So content is great to get the ball rolling, but what’s great is to take the initiative.
And that’s where outbound comes into play. Outbound by itself is also broken because the conversion rates are low and people don’t know who you are. When you combine both the proactivity of the outbound, but also the attraction of the inbound, then you have a great system. So I really help my clients build that and automate that skill, build that out, remove you from the process because you, as a CEO, you got to focus on clients.
You got to focus on the roadmap, you got to focus on operations. You’ve gotta focus on hiring. So there’s all this stuff they got to do. And if you’re always like actually in the day to day of the sales, then it prevents you from doing the CEO stuff. That’s really important to scale, even beyond 50 K. So a big part of what I do as well here is not just the sales marketing.
But also the systemizing and the operation so that they can eventually remove themselves and be more of a CEO. That’s obviously a much more intensive program. But then the transformation is much larger and these are where people can really start building some amazing businesses, I think.
Stephen: Yeah. That’s awesome, man. cool. I appreciate you sharing all this stuff, man. It’s like I said, when I first ran into everybody who was talking a lot about you and were saying a lot of great things. And then as I started to get to know you more and more, and I saw what you’re doing and I got to see it firsthand, you really stood out and I appreciate you coming on here.
Lloyd: Yeah, of course.
Stephen: Yeah. So how can people get a hold of you?
Lloyd: Yeah, all ways, and I’m sure in your show notes, you can link a couple of different things, but I’m very active on both LinkedIn and Facebook. So LinkedIn, I think it’s slash LloydYip. On Facebook, it should also be slash LloydYip.
I’m on Facebook. I do have a Facebook group, which I would highly recommend any and all people here to join. Cause I have a ton of content. I would say that’s my favorite place to share content. Like I actually share content a lot more now on Facebook then I do on LinkedIn. Not necessarily because Facebook is better than LinkedIn, but like I can only do so much.
I’ll need to be hiring a social media person next. I think that’s going to be on the roadmap for me and my team. That way I can be more active on LinkedIn as well, but I’m still very much on LinkedIn. So reach out to me either there. My email is [email protected] Obviously I’m in my inbox every day as well.
But yeah, go to my website. I have a ton of webinars if you are not necessarily comfortable with being on a sales call yet, maybe just check out one of my webinars, check out, I have two webinars, one of them is, specifically teaching you how to build the early stage organic system that gets you to $10,000 per month, totally free.
And then I have another one which is more about, okay, you have some traction. And what do you do to get to the next level? What do you do to get to the multi six figures per year level, a free webinar there as well. So if you’re more comfortable with just checking out some freebies by all means, go for it.
Facebook group, I would also consider a freebie all free content there, but if you want to just check me out for a call, my calendar link is in both my Facebook profile and my LinkedIn profile. So you can literally see that and just book a call. If you think that it makes sense. That’s awesome. That’s about it.
Stephen: Then you make it easy.
Lloyd: I try to make things easy for my clients and prospects.
Stephen: That’s awesome, man. Hey, I really appreciate your time. It was really great to catch up and get a chance to actually speak to you in person. And, I look forward to talking with you again.
Lloyd: All right. Thanks for having me, Stephen. I appreciate it. This has been a very fun experience for me.
Stephen: All right. Cool, man.
Lloyd: I’ll see ya. Cheers.