Stephen: Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Digital Masters Podcast. Today we have on Tim Keen. He is the co-founder of Loop Club. They help purpose driven e-commerce brands scale quickly. And we’re going to be talking about how he’s grown his agency from nothing to over a million dollars a year in less than nine months.
We’re also going to be talking about how you find time to do the important things like marketing when you’re so busy scaling an agency. So let’s get into it. All right, Tim. Thanks for being on the show today. I appreciate it.
Tim: Of course, Stephen, pleasure.
Stephen: Yeah, no, I really appreciate it. So you’ve left a lasting impression in my life and in my business. You were the first person that saw one of my LinkedIn posts and you scheduled the call right away.
And then you actually signed the deal on that first call. I thought that was awesome. And I appreciate that.
Tim: Oh, no, of course. It was so funny when I saw it, because I had never done sales before. I was looking and I was like, okay, how do I make content? And I saw your post.
And I was like, I want to do that. Show me how to do that. And it was such a clear, like, ‘all right.’
Stephen: Yeah. And then that told me something about you, too. You’re obviously adventurous and trusting. A lot of people would not do that. They wouldn’t just find somebody online and take that risk.
I’m curious, how has that played into your life and maybe even into your business, that kind of adventurous, trusting perspective?
Tim: Yeah. It’s funny that you say that. I don’t even really think about it, but I do think that I have made a lot of relatively reckless decisions that have ultimately benefited me.
I do find myself to be an early adopter a lot. Like when I see an ad for a well-targeted like, ‘Oh, this software is really gonna help my career.’ Or ‘Oh, this thing.’ If the value proposition is something I’m actually gonna find helpful, that will help me, I will test it out.
I’ll be like, ‘All right, it’s worth it. What’s the worst that can happen?’
I think it was when I was learning marketing. I didn’t really have marketing experience. I had no marketing experience and how I learned to do it was like building stores. When I started getting fast at learning was when I stopped holding myself back from paying for the $39 a month plugin or ‘Oh, I shouldn’t use this until I’m like really confident it’s going to help me.’
That thinking was costing me a lot of money because I was never learning what the product or what that thing would be. Obviously I’ve wasted a bunch of money on things that may not have worked out or may not have been the best thing, but I’ve also learned more.
Now I have experience with all of these different things. And that experience I think comes across on sales calls and comes across with the team and it helps. It accelerates your business.
Stephen: Yeah. It’s funny that those little purchases actually hold us back.
Like it’s like a $39 plugin, but we’re like, ‘Eh, I don’t know about it.’ I have to admit that is one of the things I’m trying to get over now, pulling the trigger faster on stuff. What’s the big deal? You learn so much, you can learn so much faster.
And I don’t know. That is something that I take from guys like you, even seeing the way you worked with me. I was like, ‘Oh, you can just do that. What’s the big deal?’
Tim: It’s funny because I was literally talking about this today. I’m onboarding someone and I was trying to think, as I onboarded them, I was like, ‘Hey, what’s actually really important to the business?’
And I was like, just do it, just do the thing, whatever you want to do, do that. You don’t have to ask me.
One of our clients actually is really exceptional at that. They’re really very good business people who have been in digital marketing for a really long time, and there is no gap between wanting to do something and doing it.
It doesn’t exist. It’s, ‘Oh, cool idea. Okay. What are we going to do?’ They’re a very extreme example of it and they’re very successful, but it really was a reminder of, ‘Hey, that does work.’
Stephen: Yeah. And I think like strategy is fun. I actually love strategy, but what I’ve noticed, especially with marketing, it’s that the execution informs the strategy. So yeah, spend a little time thinking about how you can leverage your time, money, effort, as best as possible. That’s how you can actually move as fast as possible.
Tim: Yeah. And the execution like in this job in marketing, I think, especially in sales and marketing, there are so many tiny details that make a really massive impact on how things work and you don’t know what those details are until you’ve done it one time.
And it’s always so little. It’s, ‘Oh, you should’ve connected that integration like this, and then it would have been positive.’ ‘Oh, everyone knows you have to exclude this audience. So everyone does it this way.’ But you don’t know that. No one knows that.
Stephen: And especially with product development, if you’re doing something, yeah, it’s like when you’re doing a product, like even what I have now, I engineered it through discussions. I would go to somebody. I would pitch it to them. Sometimes it wasn’t even a pitch. It was like, ‘Hey, let’s have a discussion. Let me run some ideas by you.’ And if my idea sounded good enough, then I could turn it into a pitch halfway through.
But it was the conversations that I had with people that actually created the product. I could never have created the product if I hadn’t had those conversations.
Tim: Completely. And I think, I didn’t even realize when I got on that call with you that I was your first person to book a call.
And I think that was like, testament to the fact that I was looking for the thing that you had, and maybe you hadn’t said it that many times. There wasn’t a routine around it, but it’s still, like you found something…
Stephen: You weren’t the first person to book a call. But you were the first person to absorb it and pull the trigger on the first call.
Tim: [Laughter] I didn’t know if that says a good thing about me, the most impulsive person.
Stephen: No, I think that’s what’s cool about you. And that’s what I remember. I went to my wife and I was like, ‘Man, I just met the coolest guy.’ Because that attitude… Here’s another reason why I thought that was cool, because I knew that you would be successful doing what we were going to do.
Because there are so many people, with content, they all want to know all the answers, just like what we’re talking about. They want all the answers upfront. They want to know that what they do is going to provide value. And it’s, ‘Hey, you’re going to take a best guess, but you don’t know what’s going to happen until you start doing it.’
And so when you pulled the trigger on it, I was like, ‘Hey, I know this guy can make it work because he’s ready to roll.’ So that’s what was exciting as well as it being exciting for me to have that happen because that’s the dream with selling consulting packages, that you get something like that.
Tim: Someone’s… yeah, exactly. I want to do that now. I would love to have that, but I also think it speaks to where I was at. It’s hard to even remember now, but I was so confused about how to effectively actually drive leads through content.
I hadn’t done it before. I didn’t have many resources available to me on how to do it. And when you’re feeling that void, when you’re like, I have to make this work, I have to find a solution to this problem of not having enough leads. Like I will just do things, like you have to keep testing stuff.
Stephen: Yeah, totally. So when we started working together, we took a slight pause because you’re so busy, which is awesome. You’re scaling like crazy right now. For the people that are at that stage where they’re scaling their whatever type of agency it is, their consulting agency, whatever, I was hoping we could talk a little bit about the stresses you’re going through.
Before I get into some of the other questions, maybe tell me a little bit about exactly what’s going on with you guys. What are you going through right now?
Tim: Totally. So we started, really, our business was formed, we got our LLC in August last year. We were working a little bit before that, but formally we didn’t even have a bank account until late August.
We’d obviously all been working, we came from different agencies, we had experience in the business, we knew how to do this, but we weren’t publicizing ourselves, driving leads, doing all of that stuff. And then since obviously COVID happened… We do marketing for purpose-driven Shopify e-commerce stores.
So e-commerce is booming. We know how to do it. We’ve done it before, we have proven success. So it’s not that hard to sell to people once you can get them on the phone. But the challenge is figuring out how to articulate to people what you can sell. So we started, the three of us, me, Taylor, and Tim, we started around August last year with not very much revenue and just one client.
And now we’re at I think somewhere around 20 clients, over $100,000 in recurring monthly revenue. It’s really skyrocketed in growth. It’s crazy. And I think the challenges that we’re facing now, right now, they’re really around resources.
It’s how do we get the resources in place at the right time? How do we assemble the moving parts, how do we get enough people who know what they’re doing to service the clients by the date when everything happens?
But literally less than six months ago, before I started posting on LinkedIn, the main problem that we had was, how do we get leads? How do we predictably get leads? And we had no answer to that. None at all. I had no idea what I was going to do. And we’re a marketing agency. So theoretically, we should know that, but we all come from direct to consumer. So it’s so different.
Stephen: Yeah. That’s interesting.
But I’ve always found that interesting that sometimes marketers need help marketing. Like I still need help marketing, it’s like, we all need help on these things, even though we are that thing.
Tim: Yeah. I wish I’d realized that earlier. I think that’s actually something that if we had done this again, I would have started marketing earlier and potentially consulted someone with real experience in B2B marketing early, because marketers a lot of the time are not good at marketing themselves.
That’s definitely a thing that people say and I’ve found it to be really true. Also, I had no preparation for how different B2B and B2C is. It’s more different than me being in a band and me being a marketer, like it’s fundamentally different industries, a different way of approaching people, different things that qualify people, different sales processes, different… there’s a lot more, obviously it’s bigger ticket purchases and people don’t want to fail.
You don’t want to fail in B2B marketing cause you’ll get fired or your boss will be mad at you. That experience is very different. If you’re buying a skirt or buying some meat on the internet, you’re not worried about losing your job from that.
Stephen: Yeah, every once in a while somebody will come to me that they’re still in a consumer product. I would love to help. But I don’t know. I just don’t know. Although there was one guy that came to me the other day, which was kinda interesting. He’s developing his own tequila and he wants to do video too, but he wants to build his brand around the technology space.
So he’s thinking about doing a podcast or a show around that. And I thought that was an interesting idea of bringing attention to the brand itself. But yeah, it is totally different.
I think for me I don’t even really think B2B or B2C. For me it’s always been E2E, it’s like entrepreneur to entrepreneur. That’s how my mind works. So sometimes I don’t even, like the lines are all blurred.
So in terms of yourself, how as the leader, as one of the leaders of your organization, how are you handling the stresses of all this stuff? Do you get time off during the weekends? Personally, how are you handling that?
Tim: Yeah. That’s been the most challenging thing for us. So there’s three of us. I’m so lucky that we have three co-founders and the whole team is amazing. So having that and knowing that the team is so solid, just that has made me feel okay.
I would say that my stress was significantly higher in January before the leads closed. We formed this company without a clear leader, which I think is a totally fine way to form a company. The three of us really contribute different strengths and weaknesses, but we just did not have a defined sales process.
My fear in January was so much greater because we had all this stuff. We had all of this stuff, but I couldn’t predictably tell you when the new revenue was going to come in or where it was going to come from. And that was terrifying. That was about as scared as I’ve ever been.
And that was when I was working hardest. I would work constantly. And now I feel like my personal stress has decreased, even though the amount of work that we have to do, the volume of deliverables and the amount of clients is much higher, but I’m so much less stressed because I know where our next meal is coming from.
I’m relatively confident that I could post or that I could run some ads. And then I’m confident that I could run that process from start to finish. I could get us a new client if we needed to. So I’m actually doing way better. I’m doing way better.
Unfortunately, what’s hard for me personally is seeing the stress trickle down to the rest of the team because they were waiting on the clients. I did all of the stress of the sales process, and now they’re like, ‘Oh God, we have to deliver and service the clients.’
I’m feeling better, weirdly. I’ve tried to take a couple of days off. Trying to get one day off a week would be awesome. I’d love it. It’s hard.
Stephen: Yeah, no, I hear ya. So like in terms of the team, how do you deal with that?
Number one, the team always wants to help out, they want to contribute, but they have their own personal lives, too. How have you been handling the negotiation with that when you need them or you need them to put in a little extra time, how do you negotiate all that?
Tim: Yeah, I think it’s been really… they’ve just done it. Everyone’s just done it. Everyone’s done what they’ve needed to do. I think it’s really been about people feeling like they own the responsibility. And having only two other real co-founders who have skin in the game, who are absolutely in it.
And even people who aren’t co-founders like Lisa and Camille have been there since the start, really close to the business and they work incredibly hard. They work all the time. But sometimes you need people to take some days off and you need people to take a weekend.
Otherwise you’ll all collectively lose your minds. But everyone’s stepped up. Everyone’s just done it. And it’s been absolutely amazing. I think everything has gotten better now that I’m driving more leads [laughter]. That’s the thing that makes everything easier.
Because all of a sudden people are like, ‘I don’t want to get left behind here.’ A lot is happening at once. And everyone steps up their game. Everyone pushes forward. And it becomes easier to justify getting things, like getting new stuff or getting a salesperson or getting a fractional COO whom we got, which has been fundamental, hugely important to us.
It’s so much easier to justify that stuff if we’re driving revenue. We’ve got to go! But when you’re sitting on the same number of clients every month, which we were for a really long time, and not explicitly trying to grow, trying to be like, ‘Oh, okay, we’ll manage it.’ That’s when the thoughts creep in, thoughts and opinions and worry and it gets personal. But we don’t have time for that.
Stephen: Yeah, that’s cool.
And you guys feel like a very purpose driven company, too. I just have a feeling. Was it just a feeling? Because I, I don’t know, you tell me. It’s the way that you have that adventurous attitude, you go with the flow.
You have a purpose. Obviously you have the revenue to support everything, but I have a feeling that’s what allows the team to feel comfortable, too. And even putting in that extra effort when they need to.
Tim: Yeah, I think that’s true. And I think the other thing that’s been really helpful for us actually is that there’s a lot of people from outside the industry. I think that’s been really pivotal because all of a sudden, if you come in, and for all of us, this has been a tremendous opportunity for all of us. I fell into this industry and then brought my friends into the work that we’ve been doing together, and then trying to deliver as good quality work as we can.
We all fell into this job and have to learn on the go and knowing that there are gaps in your knowledge that you need to fill and knowing that you’re doing things that you may have never done before and knowing that we’re all doing that together, I think helps people work a little bit harder than if you’re, ‘Oh, okay. Clocking in today to my marketing.’
Stephen: Yeah. No, totally. I agree. Even with hearing you talk about it, I kinda miss having that team. It’s cool that you have those partners and it’s a good functioning relationship. I remember one of the hardest things about selling my previous company was going from having what you’re talking about to literally being one guy, one guy again. It’s quite an experience.
So I would encourage you to think carefully before you ever sell your company. There’s benefits to it, of course, but especially in a service business, you put in so much effort and time.
And you do it over such a long period of time. You build all these relationships. So it’s pretty tough to leave that and exit out of that.
Tim: Yeah. It’s really interesting. Because that’s a topic of conversation that comes up and you want to prepare your business for that opportunity and you want to have that option.
And it also obviously sounds great to make more money and not have to work as much. And to be able to, if you sell it to the right person, it seems like you can push the business forward. But yeah, I can only imagine how challenging that would be to lose that.
Stephen: Yeah, it really is.
And talking about what you’re saying now, too, is interesting because the things to prepare yourself for sale or partners coming and going, all of that stuff, is not fun to talk about. Having buy-sell agreements, none of it is fun to think through.
Tim: Exactly. It’s really uncool and it makes you think really concretely about money and what’s yours and what isn’t yours, which is not that fun.
Stephen: I would imagine for a team like yours where you guys seem like you’re so close knit, those types of discussions are uncomfortable.
Tim: Absolutely. Yeah, we don’t like it at all. And we have, I think one thing that will help us with that is we brought on a fractional CFO as well to try to take care of that for us. And there’s another person I found on LinkedIn. Everyone who’s good in this business we found on LinkedIn.
Stephen: Yeah. All, I say all of them, but the majority of my clients have come from LinkedIn. The majority of all the people on my podcasts have come from LinkedIn. So it’s a pretty, pretty crazy place. Earlier I mentioned that you took a break from working with me because you guys were so busy.
I had a webinar earlier where I was talking about content marketing and 75% of the people basically said that the hardest part about it is the time. So obviously businesses run out of time, but I don’t know. Maybe you could tell me a little bit about, especially with agencies, if you’re growing, you’re never going to get the time. The time never comes. So I’m wondering, How do you think about this? How do you slot something like that in? Something like doing content marketing or making these things a priority?
Tim: Yeah. It’s a huge pain point.
It’s so funny that you say that because we have been building some courses or I’ve been trying to productize our knowledge into some courses specifically for people who may not be ready for an agency yet, but want to set up their ad account well to be able to run marketing well.
When I’ve done research and talked to people, everyone says exactly the same thing. They say the money, the amount, the course cost is not relevant. What’s relevant is time. We’re all so time poor, we need to get actionable information quickly. It’s like everyone is out of time.
This is our biggest problem right now. Content marketing works. We know it works. We know that it increases ROI over time. We know that SEO is massively valuable to the business. We know that we get leads from it, but even still, I can’t make time for it because my day is filled in with client calls and stuff like that. So it’s something that we’re working through.
I think it’s not something that we’ve solved yet, but there are a few things that we’re trying. The first thing is I hired someone to do sales and I’m going to have her do sales and marketing. I’m going to give her the project of making content, kind of like project management, and owning the content as like a project she needs to do.
She has to think about us, the people who may contribute to that content, as actors that she has to wrangle and then own the process of wrangling us. Because we can do it. If someone sits down with us…we did this the other day, when we were trying to make a video, we were all exhausted. I was like, ‘Guys, maybe we shouldn’t do this.’ And then Mars who works on our team says, ‘We can knock it out within minutes!’ And we got it done.
Exactly. Yeah. He’s a TikTok… he’s TikTok famous. And that attitude of having someone wrangle us and be like, ‘No, you can do it in 15 minutes. You have to,’ has helped a lot, man.
Stephen: That is one of the most interesting points you’ve made because I feel that all the time, like I’ll sit down and ‘Ah, I don’t want to do this,’ but you sometimes have to push yourself through.
But yeah, it feels impossible until you sit down and do it and you’re like, ‘Oh, that wasn’t that bad.’
Tim: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And a lot of the time, 15 minutes can be a lot of time. You can get a lot done in 15 minutes. The other thing that I want to start doing, this is purely speculation but I haven’t done it yet, is I think going to be a very efficient way to make content, to talk into a Loom or into something like that for an hour and then have someone transcribe it for a blog.
I think that’s gonna, I think it’ll work. If I do 30 minutes of, if I make a rough outline of an article that I would have written, a very rough article, talk about it and then have someone transcribe that and edit it, I think that will be an effective and scalable way of making content, because we talk about this stuff all day.
We talk about things that would be good pieces of blog content. We’re constantly talking and we’re all I think eloquent enough that we could get it down. And then it’s about building a process around that. Like how do you transcribe it? How do you edit it? How do you turn it into real content?
And I don’t have that machine yet. I know that you do. And I think that’s something that would be really beneficial to us like, how do you build the actual content distribution machine? That is something I’m working on.
And then I think the third thing that would be really helpful that we’re getting to now is organizational buy-in around the value of content. It takes a long time to get everyone on the same page. I know that this SEO blog that we’re writing isn’t going to deliver leads tomorrow, and no one, no client is going to yell at you if you don’t do this by tomorrow. Whereas we have all these other obligations that someone will yell at us.
Like someone will be mad if we don’t do these things. But actually this piece of blog content is actually much more important because it eventually creates our ability to have the clients in a month’s time or six months now. If we don’t do it now, we won’t have those clients. We need to do it.
So getting buy-in, getting everyone on the same page about the value of it has been challenging, but I actually think we’re there now. And around that what we’ve done is we’re trying to make Fridays into a relatively client-free day. So Friday is the day that we work on the business.
We all, the whole team, everyone thinks about, okay, what needs to be done in the business? What needs to be done in our processes? What ads do we need to make for ourselves? What content do we need to make for ourselves?
It hasn’t been completely successful yet because we’re super busy, but carving out that space to be like, ‘No, it’s good, and right, that you’re not always working on client stuff and we want you to, and we’re forcing you to. It’s starting a process.’
Stephen: I think you can almost get addicted to the work and you almost feel like when you stop doing the work and you start doing this other creative thing, and it’s a little more loosey goosey or whatever the word is. You almost feel guilty. Like there’s something I should be doing right now.
And yeah, to your point about SEO, one of my clients, they’re like a $9,000,000 virtual CFO firm now. And SEO has been huge for them. It was an investment they started way back. And man, it’s what drives most of their growth now.
Tim: So yeah. Yeah. One of our clients, our smartest client, are SEO geniuses and they just own the internet. They don’t have to spend money on ads. They don’t have to raise venture capital. They have websites and people come to them and it’s so easy.
But it involves forward planning and the risk of wasting time and money on something that you need to be confident in the future of. It’s scary.
Stephen: I keep going back to that thing where it’s like, how risky is it, really? Like it feels risky, but I dunno, is it really?
I’ve been starting to think about SEO a lot, and I haven’t executed on this yet, but it’s top of my list. What I want to try to do is either take my live shows, these 10 or 15 minute live shows, those will already be on YouTube, but then transcribe those and have somebody develop an SEO strategy. Not me, because I don’t know that very well, but develop an SEO strategy so that when I take those transcripts and I send them to get written, they’ll go through that SEO filter.
Then hopefully I’ll be producing fairly regular blog articles that, it’s not just a transcription, but it’s actually targeted for SEO. And so that’s kinda my plan. I feel like there’s gotta be a way to do one thing and have it accomplish a bunch of things
Tim: There absolutely has to be leverage. You have to be able to create leverage. Otherwise we’re all in trouble.
Stephen: What about instead of doing the Loom videos, what if you just recorded, I dunno, client calls or strategy calls, or it seems like what you’re going to be talking about is probably happening naturally some other time during the week.
Tim: Yeah. I, my thinking is that I agree.
My thinking is that if you want to rank for very specific keywords, you have to build these long form fully explained articles around this topic area. For example, a keyword that we want to rank for that I think would be an amazing keyword to rank for is the Klaviyo, the email software that our clients work on.
Because if you know that word, you are in-market, very close to in-market, or at least you could benefit from something that we offer. And it’s a keyword that is growing in volume. We benefit from all of the VC money that Klaviyo is spending on marketing. So we obviously want to rank for that, but in order to do that, you need to build like the most useful article on the internet about Klaviyo, which requires you to conform to Google standards.
It needs to have these specific subheadings, it needs to have this kind of information, we need this kind of numbered list, that kind of specific thing I feel we don’t necessarily do on a client call. We haven’t gamed it as much.
Stephen: So how would you do it? Somebody would somebody come up with the SEO strategy and would say, ‘Hey, we need this article,’ and then you would sit down and talk off the top of your head?
Tim: Just say it. Yeah. Just say it. And then someone would make it better. Exactly. We have a great SEO consultant, Katie who owns an agency, is a senior in an agency as well. And she tells me what to write. And then I say to her, I didn’t have time to do this, but that’s the problem that needs to be solved.
Stephen: Yeah. I might ask you for her name or her contact information. My biggest fear is not having a clear SEO strategy. Yeah. That’s the thing for me that’s totally mystical. From what I understand you need to have the title, the slug, all this stuff, all pre-engineered and then you put the content in, but all of those things are thought up way ahead of time.
Yeah. Do you ever get afraid of… Gary V I think talks about this. Sometimes he talks about how SEO is eventually gonna get obliterated by voice and all these different things. That’s one of the things that sticks in the back of my mind, that I’m going to do something that becomes irrelevant.
But I dunno. Does any of that kind of stuff ever hold you back? It doesn’t sound like it, but…
Tim: Yeah, it’s interesting. It’s funny, that’s happening right now. I don’t know how up you are on the Facebook iOS 14.5 updates, but basically Apple is making it significantly more difficult to track people on Facebook.
The era of cheap clicks, super cheap leads, super cheap conversions on Facebook, is probably ending. It’s going to become more difficult to target on Facebook so that you do need to have some expertise to make that platform work for you. We’ve been seeing an increase in CPMs for years and the people, the businesses that are having real success on Facebook right now are high lifetime value products.
So we’ve seen that strategy losing steam in real time. It’s not going to be as powerful to have in a couple of years. But on the other hand, we’re diversified enough in the tactics that we know how to use that we’re immune to it.
Like Klaviyo email marketing is on the rise. We’re good at Facebook, which means that people need to come to us if they’re failing at it. And the techniques that we use are quite fundamental. It’s really about making good creative, making compelling, easy to understand creative and making your ad accounts simple and well-structured and avoiding mistakes which are fundamental. That’s always going to be necessary. People can overthink this stuff.
So I think for us, it’s really about not having all my eggs in one basket. That’s been a huge thing for me because definitely I know for SEO, it’s always Google updates. That’s what people stress out about. Google changes the algorithm and then all of a sudden you’re not on page one anymore. So you do need other ways of reaching people.
And I think that’s what’s been hard, how do we actually diversify? It takes so much more work to run an email list, and run a CR, and do this bug book, and do this thing, and do this thing. But, yeah, it helps.
Stephen: Does e-commerce mess around on YouTube at all? I’ve heard that’s one ground that’s untapped right now.
Tim: Yeah, we do. We do. I have personally done it because I came from being a Google buyer. I still am a Google buyer. I’ve had a couple of real successes on YouTube. Like for sure. I can do it about 40% of the time I test it, I would say. Which is not a slam dunk by any means. But when it works, it’s absolutely amazing.
Like absolutely amazing. We grew a business from $40,000 a month to over $1,000,000 a month in six months, just one YouTube. You can do it. It’s really doable. But if there are people out there who know how to do it predictably, and really know how to do YouTube, again, I think it’s more for high ticket products. You really need a product that’s a little more expensive.
And you need to spend a lot of money. The algorithm is quite volume sensitive. If you can afford to spend $10,000 to $20,000 just on testing, you’re far more likely to have a positive outcome than if you have to decide if your test was successful at $5,000 of spend, because it’s very algorithmic.
So it’s biased to the more high-budget advertisers. But it’s definitely something that we want to do more of and move into and spend more time with.
Stephen: That’s something I’ve been dreaming about. But one of the reasons I haven’t done ads partly is because I’m helping people do organic stuff anyway.
So I feel like the more I keep focused on that and making that work the more I can stay true to my mission, my purpose. But at the same time, yeah there’s something alluring about figuring that code out and getting those ads running.
Tim: You would do very well on YouTube.
I think for a lot of coaches and course people, it’s very easy from what I understand to run those kinds of ads on YouTube.
Stephen: Because it’s already somewhat more high ticket?
Yeah, it’s more high ticket and also YouTube is a place people go to learn something. So there’s a large number of entrepreneurs on there trying to learn something.
And it’s also a medium where having faces really works. Every ad that I’ve had work on YouTube is straight to camera looking right in the camera. So, you’re already doing that.
Stephen: Cool, man. I appreciate you being here, so maybe tell people a little bit more about what you do specifically and where they can get a hold of you if they need you.
Tim: Yeah, absolutely. We work with Shopify e-commerce brands that are trying to scale.
Generally, if you have had some traction in the market and you’re looking to grow revenue rapidly and profitably, then we’re probably the people to call. You could go to our website, which is loop.club, or go to my LinkedIn, linkedin.com/in/tim-keen and I’ll be there.
Stephen: You’re the only person I’ve ever met that knew to tell people to put the “in” in there.
Tim: Because I’ve made that mistake so many times.
Stephen: That’s awesome. Yeah. I appreciate you being on. Honestly, it’s been a huge pleasure to have been introduced to you and I look forward to interacting with you for a lifetime. Really. Thanks again, man. Appreciate it.
Tim: Oh, likewise, this growth, like it really would not have happened had we not had that meeting. Like you helped us unlock this.
Stephen: That’s awesome. Thank you. I appreciate it. I’ll see you.
Reach out to Tim: