Growth Marketing For Recruiting Firms With Ryan Kovach

Stephen: All right, Ryan man. Nice to see you again, man. 

Ryan: What’s going on, brother? Good to get to be back on the horn with you. 

Stephen: Yeah, man. And I appreciate you being on episode number one. I just always felt like ever since we met on LinkedIn, we’ve always had a good energy and maybe a brother from another mother.

Ryan: I don’t know. But, number one. That’s what I like to be. So it’s awesome. 

Stephen: Yeah. And I think it’s fitting because I know you’re always just about executing stuff. Yeah. And I’m trying to take that approach with the podcast here. The first thing I did was I reached out to people to see if they would be on, before I actually figured out how it was going to work.

Yeah, I lost you just for a second there, but, so yeah, I know.. 

Ryan: I heard what you said. 

Stephen: Yeah. Cool. So I know, I know that you help staffing companies grow. I know that you help them reach their full potential. We’re also going to talk a little bit about HubSpot, like from a tactical perspective, like how do you use it?

What’s so cool about it, but like to start, I thought we would, I would just ask you a little bit about like, where a couple of traits came from in terms of like your life, like the first thing that you talked to me about, which I thought was really cool. It was like, especially because I have some troubles with this, sometimes it’s, you had some things going on in your life and you had to make some choices and you just started a company.

And I’ve done that before too. But like the way you did it is like you just started signing clients. And then a few days later you had a post that was “execution matters”. And 

I remember that post on LinkedIn, like really did really well. There’s a lot of passion behind it. So it was like, where does that come from? What in your life has allowed you to

 be like that? 

Ryan: Yeah, man. Obviously it’s funny. I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs, but it’s interesting. I grew up really, really poor. Mom was a single mom working a lot of jobs. She worked for a staffing company as a clerical person for years during the day, and then worked at a waffle house at night, raising two boys.

And it wasn’t until I became close to an adult, I was in the late teens, when she finally had enough of making a lot of people money except for herself. And so she stepped out and opened a staffing company. Because she’d been doing it for, I don’t know, 15, 20 years as a clerical person, but she learned the business.

So anyways, long story short, she just took the bull by the horns and she stopped, started a company. Yeah. And within five years it was a multimillion dollar operation with 12, 13 employees. And then it grew from there and eventually became a top 25 independently owned staffing company in the state of Texas.

So there with her, I just, I, we learned to be real scrappy, growing up, we were scrappy. We approached sports, with a winning attitude, we were just scrappy. And so seeing her with no, she didn’t raise capital, she didn’t have a venture case, she didn’t get bank loans, she didn’t do any of that.

She set up a company, she went to work and she believed in herself. And ultimately, I gained a lot of that from her. I’ve always had that successful business, related to the staffing and recruiting industry. And so you know, about a year ago, I was recruited into a company, a really great company up in Minneapolis named Park and Marketing.

They gave me a chance. They heard my background and it looked like a really great fit. They’re rockin’ and rollin’ just crushing it as far as I was concerned. Everybody and the team was doing great. And then COVID hit. Yeah. boom, bottom fell out, some layoffs and I found myself back up, down the street going, huh?

What do I do? And then, I laid around for a day or two licking my wounds. I said, you do what you’ll always do though. Just start up a company. So I actually started a company. So Kobe is only since March, I actually have already started a company that failed.

And by fail, it failed me. It was signing clients and doing well in terms of growth and visibility and stuff. But I put it into place too quick and it failed me. It failed what I wanted to do. And ultimately that means it’s going to fail the customers. 

Stephen: But I think what you’re saying though, is like totally unique, at least from a lot of people’s perspective, because I said your problem was not getting clients or signing them, but it was just like, in some way, I envy your problem was just that you had the clients and it wasn’t fulfilling what you wanted to do.

Ryan: I saw a big wall that I was about to crash into. And it’ll lead into what I’m gonna say about what I’m currently doing. So what I did is I stepped out and restarted a pretty traditional digital marketing company. We build websites, we’ll do social posts, we’ll do some SEO.

We will do an email marketing campaign for you. And I just quickly realized I had a gut feeling for a long time. Even back before I got laid off, even all of that’s not going to work. The model failed. The digital marketing models specifically for B to B service based businesses fail.

Stephen: Yeah, you made a post about that too. I remember it. And I agree. It’s like a saturated…  

Ryan: You realize the average relationship in that model is six months. 

Stephen: I didn’t know that, but is it just because everyone promises major results? 

Ryan: So you get caught up in this trap, you have to promise results or you don’t get a client.

But you promise results that you probably can’t get. And why is that? Because plastering generic posts on social that get zero engagement, trying to do SEO to a company that has such a small budget that they’re going up against monsters in the industry. You’re the SEO and the PPC is never going to work.

Okay,  trying to try to do all of these menu items. You give me this amount of money and I’ll do this many posts, this many blogs and everything else. It’s a complete waste of time. All in all facets, it’s a waste of time. The companies are wasting their money. And I knew that. So I stepped back and I felt a little dirty.

What I’m saying isn’t not true. I will do these things for you. Just know, it’s not going to help you. If I can’t truly help you, then I feel a little greasy. So yeah, sure. I said, you know what? Nope. I could easily ride this. I could grow this. I could make money. But at the end of the day, every six to eight months, I’m going to, I’m going to make an enemy.

And I don’t want to do that. So I stepped back and I said, I actually, what I think small service-based B to B businesses need is staffing and recruiting specifically, but even any other ones, especially big ticket items like a staffing company. If they land an account, it can be worth millions.

One account, right? So these are big ticket items, same with construction. If they go land a bid, it could be a $25 million job. So it’s vitally important that they don’t have to have volume, but it’s important that they secure these large accounts.

Anyways, I said, what they really need is they need a team of people. To come in and be more of an outsource chief marketing officer, because quite frankly, a lot of these companies can’t afford a chief marketing officer. The median income for a CMOs is $174,000 a year. Most companies, small service-based B to B businesses cannot do that.

So what they can afford though, is a COO that’s fractional that’s on their team, speaks to them daily, looks at all the market up and down. It looks at all their verticals and channels and everything that they’re doing, or it’s directly with the COO, the CEO, the president, but also works down with the staff  closely, and puts together the plan of execution.

And it’s very tailored, very customized. No one size fits all. It’s not a menu of I items, right? And they can afford a fractional CMO salary. So I promised my clients that I would limit the number of clients that I would work with. I would take no more than 10. Okay? Because of bandwidth and that they would have me on a daily basis.

And we would fight the good fight together. I went into that mode. Like I said, I started a company that’s already failed and we’re only talking since March 16. I reopened a new company since that failure and I am so busy. I can’t breathe. And it’s awesome. And the value and I’ve even brought in three new team members.

So the company’s up to four people now, and the value that we’re giving these companies is so white glove and so high touch and so strategic in its approach that there, they have no choice, but to succeed, it’s not a, let’s put a post out there for you, let’s write a blog. It’s just not, it’s much more involved and detailed working on their efficiencies, making sure that their tech stack is efficient and talking well together.

So we’re acting somewhat as their technical officers as well. Making sure that everything, I always say, I don’t know if you’ve been noticing my hashtag, but my hashtag of “everything is marketing.” Marketing is… 

Stephen: Everything is marketing, right?  

Ryan: Everything is marketing. Everything, the way you send an invoice, if it’s hard to pay and it’s not simple.

Yeah. That’s marketing. That’s an incentive. 

Stephen: I agree too, man. Like I work with somebody and I’m always trying to get him on my, “Hey, let’s get you, let’s get these invoices so that they’re easier for people to pay.” Yes, even people use credit cards. I know it. I know it’s like, you get dinged a little bit, but like making it easy to work with you is part of the whole. 

Ryan: 2% fee for the credit card. But to make some money, just click a button and be done with it is worth every penny. 

Stephen: And plus you can get, plus you can get paid up front. You get paid quick and you’re not necessarily doing all this accounts receivable stuff, following up on things. Cause people, yeah, cause when people pay on credit card, they can, they instantly know that they can pay them off later.

And accounts receivables, that’s such a pain in the butt, man. 

Ryan: Yeah, it is. everything is marketing. How you answer the phone, how you, how easy is it to interact with your company. Do you know, is the tech stack appropriate between your company and your clientele? To where everything gels and talks.

So it’s not just about placing an ad. It’s not just about putting a post out there or writing a blog or running PPC accounts or campaigns or paid social. It is those things and those things are part of it, but it’s mainly about making sure that from top to bottom, the company is as absolutely desirable to work with. 

Stephen: On every facet. And that goes into one of those, yeah, that goes into one of the things. I think a lot of what you said, it ties into number one. The other thing I noticed about you when we first started talking was that you’re always putting the customer first, also between your ability to execute and then your ability to put the client first.

I’m assuming that’s why you’re able to like, spin these things up so quickly because you’re so customer focused .

Ryan: I’m figuring out what they need because, “who cares? What? I don’t know. I don’t care what I need.” 

Stephen: Most entrepreneurs struggle with that, man.  

Ryan: So when we’re looking at, when we look at, when we do an initial evaluation of the, maybe like a website or something where we’re signing on a client, it’s a touchy thing because I have to most, almost a hundred percent of the time have to go back and say, okay, I have read your entire website, from top to bottom, at least your cornerstone pieces.

And all you do is talk about yourself, right? We’ve won this. We’re the greatest at that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I’m seeing nothing on here about pain points, solving problems, finding solutions, all the things that your customers deal with on a day to day basis. When I go to a website to find a new supplier or a provider or a software or anything, if I’m going to spend money on it, there’s usually something in my mind that I have a problem with.

And I’ll just briefly scan the site if they touch on that problem. They’ve got my attention and now I want to read how they solve it and then they get my credit card. 

Stephen: Right? Yeah, I’d say this is one of the most amazing things like, and this goes to another thing that me and you have always vibed on is that every company needs to understand marketing, right?

It’s like you, everything is marketing. 

Ryan: Everything. 

Stephen: But it’s, you need to understand some of these basic concepts. And it really is amazing how many companies don’t. I was talking with another company, the other, last month. And they’ve been really hit hard by COVID. And then I saw their website, they did a redesign, and everything was about them, everything.

And there was some flashy things going on and I was like, wow. That’s what I wish I had a chance to talk with them about. Yeah. For whatever reason, that wasn’t an opportunity. You run into these people and that they’re really amazing people.

They’re amazing providers there, 

Ryan: They care, they’re good companies and everything and you’re right, there’s, if you’re talking. So my world’s typically staffing, The companies that they’re placing people that have a need, they have a talent shortage, or they want to use temps for seasonal, or they want to use temps for flux or to try before they buy. Try them out for 90 days. If they’re doing great, they can bring them on direct, that type thing, temp to hire stuff like that. But when you go to the top 99% of the staffing websites, it’s we are, we were rated best places to work. We are a top 25. We’ve won the Dallas award for X, Y, and Z 25 times.

We, we have the best people, this and that. And so in their mind, they’re establishing authority, right? Like we’ve done so well, you should hire us. 

Stephen: Right. 

Ryan: But in reality, what they should say is we recognize that you have fluctuations in your need for talent. And here to help you guide through those talent fluctuations is that when production is short of good people, that your customers suffer, which causes you headaches, we’re here to help make sure that doesn’t happen.

So there’s a way to say we’re really good. But putting the problem in the focus. To me, it’s just to me, it’s just, it’s, I don’t want to say the words lazy because the people aren’t lazy, 

Stephen: Right? No. Yeah. Not at all. 

Ryan: It’s laziness in marketing and I think it’s the low hanging fruit of look how great we are. Saying that does not make people buy. It just doesn’t. 

Stephen: And it’s interesting too, cause I think the professional services area has some of the most growth potential here. There’s so many people catering to startups and corporations and stuff. But we talked about this before. It’s like those service providers, these people that like pour their hearts and souls into their clients. Those are some of the people. Yeah. yeah, totally man. 

Ryan: They have the most room for growth, their product is them like their brains, their knowledge, that’s their product, man. 

Stephen: And I think that’s, I’ve been a service provider my whole life. So that’s why it’s been easy for me to focus in on them. Yeah. Because, and you too,  you’ve been, we’re both service providers.

Ryan: Yeah, I’ve never sold a widget. I’ve never had a business that sold a widget, a product really. I’ve never taken $5 and handed a tee shirt over. So I, that’s not my thing. I don’t know .

Stephen: I have done it, but, ultimately the majority of what I’ve done is like on services.

Cool man, so in terms of, so I know like basically what you do, but tell me what is different about marketing for a recruiting firm? That’s different than like a, doing it for a financial advisor, cause what is the difference? 

Ryan: Actually the two of those are real similar and the reason is they’re just a freaking commodity dude. There’s tens of thousands of them on every street corner. So if you’re talking financial advisors and recruiting and staffing, those are very similar. 

Stephen: And then, and I’ve noticed too, they all, and I joke with them, but they all say they’re unique and it’s true. I do know that they are, but they all say that.

And then you go look at the website and you’re I know I’ve talked to you, I’ve had lunch with you. I know that you are unique. You’re like your passion for your clients, the things you offer all the time. 

Ryan: But they’re not unique. And let me tell you what, here’s the thing and don’t try to be, this is what I’m trying to tell my clients.

I don’t need for my mechanic to be unique. I need him to fix my transmission. I don’t need for him to think outside the box I need for him to fix my transmission. 

Stephen: In fact you probably don’t want them to think outside of the box. 

Ryan:  I don’t want him thinking outside the box. So when I’m talking with my clients, what I’m trying to tell them is you’re not unique and that is okay.

You’re a commodity, right? You are a dime a dozen, what you could do. Instead of focusing on all your awards and accolades, you could actually talk about the things that could make you unique, that is maybe you have way less turnover for your recruiters. Why is that important? Nobody talks about this on their website.

They don’t say we retain our recruiters 80% longer than their competition. They should. Why? Because a recruiter that knows the client company really well and has learned their inner workings when they leave the client company is tremendously affected because now the new recruiter that steps into that role has to learn everything again. There’s a lot of turnover in these, in these industries like staffing and stuff like that, where companies, everything is marketing, Where companies could get better is being a place that people want to work and want to stay, pay better, have better culture and all these things, right?

Because if you can retain your internal staff, If you can do those types of things, that is a unique differentiator and that lowers the stress of the client that you’re trying to sell to. So instead of coming in and saying, we’ve got tons of talent and all these people.  So does the other guy too. They’re running ads on the same platforms and the same people are applying and coming through their applicant tracking system.

The people aren’t the problem, but it’s internal, what’s it like working for a company. And am I going to have to train a new recruiter every seven months? Because you guys can’t keep people on board. So there’s so many things. I think people could switch their shift that is important to their customer.

Stephen: Sure. And that’s what we’ve talked a lot about. StoryBrand, that’s such a great framework to help think through that. So let me ask you, let me ask you this too. This is something that I’m working on with my clients. There’s so much stuff here that even we’ve talked about. When you first start working with somebody, how do you curtail it? How do you get started? How do you unfold this stuff over time? Cause you can’t just flip a switch and make all this stuff happen. 

Ryan: I spend the first 30 days getting to know him. I tell him look, if you’re looking for a transactional relationship where you give me money and I start slapping marketing pieces out there, I’m not going to be the guy for you. I need to get in. In fact, before this podcast, I have a new client and I spent most of my day to day, every 30 minutes scheduled with about eight of their internal employees.  Talking one on one. What does the company do good? What is the company you do bad? How can they improve your specific position?

How can they improve the company as a whole? Where do you see that they have holes in the game? What are they lacking? What are they strong at? I want to hear from the workers. The CEO has his own weird mindset and thinks he’s doing it all right. Or he thinks he’s doing it all wrong and he’s not right on either of those, he’s doing some things good and some things bad. I want to hear from top to bottom, that allows me to say, okay, I’m gathering an understanding, and then what we want to do is put a 30, 60, 90 day and then what, beyond that, a long term plan. And if they have big dreams, Hey, we want to get in this. It may be a priority. 

Number five. We may not be there yet. So we want to prioritize, fill the holes that are sinking the ship first. And then, eventually get to the sails that make you sail quick down the ocean. There’s just, there’s prioritization. That rarely takes place in a marketing agency relationship.

It’s always pay me the money and we’ll do these transactional items. 

Stephen: And that’s why they don’t work. 

Ryan: They don’t work. 

Stephen: And it’s interesting too, cause it’s like, you gotta really, you have to be really able to like communicate with people because most people, a lot of the time when people are looking for stuff, they do want that transactional thing. And you have to unwrap that. And, I think that goes to your credit that you can, that you’re able to say, hey, no, like the first thing I’m going to do with you, is just talk with you for the next 30 days and make sure I understand where we’re going so that I could actually get in there and help you.

Ryan: And so on that note, on that note, I turn away a lot of people. If I’m on the phone and I get, on initial consultations, I get the impression that this person is going to be anxious, more, need a transactional relationship, which I hear all the time, you know, “but aren’t you going to put one post a day out and this and that?”

Let me reverse that question. Why should I? What does that do for you? I don’t know. I just want it to be really active. Okay, cool. So you just want to look active? Great, we can do that. 

Stephen: It’s like social media. It’s like social media has a place. But, like you have to really be  pretty intentional about what you’re doing for it.

Ryan: No impact at all. I don’t think it, I don’t think it grows your company. if I sense that a company, owner, CEO, president, or whoever I’m speaking to has a reluctance to be fluid and be consultative and really be open, we’ll do a customized plan. Then they’re not right for me. And I tell them, hey, let me point you to a company that will transaction you your ass into the ground.

Stephen: it’s funny too though, because I think people are now conditioned to want that in a certain degree because they are bombarded by, and I think you’re right, that we’re moving out of that area where it’s just like digital marketing focus where it’s, we’re thinking more results oriented now. But, everyone’s conditioned because they’re getting bombarded with, hey, I’m going to get you leads. I’m going to get you this. I’m going to get you that. So their mind is already preconditioned. So even when they move away and they’re talking to somebody else, they’re comparing you to the thing they’re getting bombarded with.

Ryan: Yeah. And you’re right. And, but when you look at the, when you look at the length of the relationship, the average relationship, six months, that’s just terrible, man. And it builds brand negative. it’s a negative brand impact in my opinion. Number one, I’ll give you an example, talking with a construction company right now. I feel 99% certain they’re going to come on board. So I do venture out from the staffing a little bit, still service-based yes, they’re building a structure. But the 99% of it is managing the project being communicative, doing a good job in delivering a quality service to the people spending $20 million on a building. Once you get in, you start realizing everything they’re doing is heavy lifting. Every bid they get, every job they get is just hard core sales and cold calling and cold emailing and sales. And then when you start to turn that focus around and they realize that higher visibility with credibility mixed together starts to get their phone to ring. And now it’s more, do we want this job? Do we want to even bid on it? 

Stephen: No, I get it. Just what are you specifically doing? Is that paid ads or is that social media or is it blogging? Like what? 

Ryan: So a lot of it, man, I’ve gotten really involved in geo-fencing. So look, man, if let’s say I’m a construction guy and I specifically build commercial buildings, and I know that a particular franchise builds on average 1300 buildings a year, right? I can geo-fence their work site locations so that people that visit those work site locations start to get my company, my client’s brand in front of them. Next time they log on social media and everything else answering some of their hardcore questions and solving their hardcore problems. Are you working with the general contractor that maybe is constantly behind on their, on their, milestones? With X, Y, Z company, we put something in place that makes sure that we always meet our deadlines. Barring, god’s stuff, rain and whatever.

But now this person this forman, or whatever that’s visited this site, over and over you’ve geo-fenced it. He goes to check out his grandkids on Facebook and boom, my client’s brand’s right in front of them answering and solving a problem. So we’re always trying to dig in and find out what the industry problems are.

And maybe what that particular vendor has run into. I’ve even gotten for my clients and spoken to some of the contractors that are on these job sites and said, Hey man, what’s the buzz? What’s the drama around there? What are the problems going on? Oh man, they’re terrible at scheduling. They’re never on time. Okay, cool. Thanks, and then we create a freaking brand. An ad that just literally goes to decision makers that speaks specifically to that problem. 

Stephen: Interesting. And when you say geo-fencing, you’re saying like you’re targeting somebody that would be near where that person does the location, like what do you mean? Like where they’re actually building? Is it that location? 

like they’re like in their car or something? 

Ryan: So you would obviously not want to blow your budget like that, but let’s just say, show the ad to somebody who’s been to this address more than, more than five times in the last four days.

Stephen: Oh, interesting. 

Ryan: Or something like, so it makes, 

Stephen: And they, and so they’re tracking like Facebook is tracking that data on someone’s phone, so they know. That they’ve been there. That’s scary. it’s cool. That’s crazy!

Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. I know we can do all kinds of stuff like that. 

Stephen: So you might like, you might, geo-fence a competitor’s site, right?

Is that what you’re almost saying? So you’re finding the problems that are going on at other people’s places.  

Ryan: What about, what about as a recruiter? If you’re trying to find, Salesforce developers and I can go on to Salesforce, I can research Salesforce, companies that are implementing Salesforce, this and that blah, blah, blah. All right. or let’s say you do Adobe experience managers, and you’d go to Adobe’s website and they’ve listed all of their implementation. You go by companies, you find their address, you go fencing them, and anybody that’s visited that location more than a certain amount of time each week can see your ad.

What does that for? That’s to get their Adobe experience guys, to maybe switch jobs. 

Stephen: And so you’re targeting like micro populations. 

Ryan: Micro populations, very specific. 

Stephen: You could be targeting 20 people, 

Ryan: 20 people. Absolutely. 

Stephen: That’s really interesting. And you’re not paying much for that.

Ryan: No. That’s the point. I’m not trying to reach 8 million. I’m trying to reach the 20 guys that go to the same building every day. 

Stephen: That’s it interesting. I wonder how you could use that on a smaller scale. 

Ryan: Yeah. You can use it in great ways. And so again, this was an exact scenario that happened last week, okay? There was, one of my staffing clients, was like, hey, I got to get into this company. They’re literally two miles down the street. We could service them. We would basically be like an onsite, I’ve got to get in. But I can never even get my foot in the door or anything like that. So what I did is I went to LinkedIn, looked at a bunch of people that worked at this company and everything else and found a couple of people on a more floor level, right? Not higher level management. I literally reached out to him on LinkedIn on behalf of my client. Connected with them, asked them if I could ask him a few questions about what it’s like to work at that company, they were like, sure.

I asked him all kinds of questions. They spilled them. Management is disorganized. Scheduling is always off. So there, some temps are making way more money going through this service, as opposed to this service. They’re just rattling off all kinds of gold for me, man. Absolute gold. I can then take that information and I can geo-fence that company.

And I can show ads to them that say, would you like to work with this temp agency that has tight scheduling? Would you like to work with a temp agency that does this? Solves that? It’s literally speaking to their absolute dramatic internal problems? 

You can’t get any better than that.

Stephen: And so this is, so wait, so this you’re, you’re reaching out to people that used to work there, or that still work there and there’s, and they spill the beans… 

Ryan: Spill the beans, 

Stephen: And then you run the ads to those same people.

Ryan:  No, I run the ads to management of that company. 


Stephen: And you say, would you rather work for a company that doesn’t do that?

Ryan: How would you like to partner with the company that solved X, Y, and Z? And they’re like, Holy shit. How did this guy know that we’ve suffered from X, Y, and Z? And 

so you’re recruiting them basically for another company on behalf of a recruiter, or I’m trying to get, or I’m trying to get my,

Stephen: Sorry, you broke up there for a second. 

Ryan: Just trying to get my clients in the door. 

Stephen: I see. 

Ryan: So let’s use the financial advisor. If you had, if you talked to two or three people on the floor level of a financial advisor firm, and you said, what kind of problems are going on internally? And they said, man, we’re, we’ve dropped the ball here. We’ve dropped the ball there, blah, blah, blah, this and that. Okay, cool. I can then target ads to solve those problems through my service. Whatever service I’m doing.

Stephen: and who, but who would you target in that case? 

Ryan: Depends on what service I’m providing. So like for a staffing company, I would target HR and I would target plant managers and I would target, shift managers and things like that. The people who actually make the relationships with the staffing company. Just say no current either schedule or are they, we are not paying people the appropriate rate for this and that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Whatever problems I’ve heard from the drama. You create an ad that solves that problem. And you specifically present it in front of like  just 15 people. That’s not a very expensive ad. 

Stephen: That’s really interesting. 

Ryan: It’s account based marketing where I’m telling my clients to figure out the 15 companies, you want to be, let’s grow one company at a time. Let’s grow one account at a time, especially for my clients, one new account. If they can put a hundred, 200 temps out there. You’ve immediately created a million dollar revenue account. 

Stephen: So this is B2B. So do you think this specifically works with B2B? Like in a way don’t you think financial advisors are B2C? 

Ryan: They are. I think so. Yeah, cause they’re they’re yeah, they’re absolutely B to C.

Stephen: I’m just trying to think of, I know you could, I know you could I talk to people and get the issues. I’m just trying 

Ryan: If I were selling software that financial advisors used. 

Stephen:  Yeah, no, I got ya. 

Ryan: Okay? And it’s a pretty big ticket item. It’s an expensive software and everything else.

And I can find out from the ground floor guys, all of their frustrations they’re having with their current financial software. I make a list of five things. And then my ads say, are you tired of dealing with A, B, C, and D? The people at the top are like, Jesus, that’s all we hear about. Yeah, that’s a problem. This company solves it? At least let me click on this and see, 

Stephen: Interesting actually. 

Ryan: Yeah, it’s very targeted and it keeps your budget low and it’s very specific. And again, if I get my clients, if they sign on five new, literally five new decent accounts a year for most small to medium sized staffing companies that could double their revenue that could literally double the size of their company.

Stephen: It’s awesome, man. Yeah, that’s cool. 

Ryan: But the digital agency model is never going to do that for them.  

Stephen: Yeah, you’re really thinking of like outside the box, being creative and going out and figuring out what those pain points are. And then it’s like it’s strategic and tactical  and thoughtful. 

Ryan: Yeah, it’s almost a blurring of actual business development and marketing, right? 

Stephen: Yeah. That’s cool, man. so I wanted to talk about HubSpot, but I think, maybe we could just meet again to talk about that at some point. Cause I think even just what we were talking about in this geo-fencing stuff was really, man, that was eye opening for me. 

Ryan: I’ll say one last thing about geo-fencing from B2C. So I was actually back before COVID, if you can remember way back in the day where you used to actually walk through a mall, right? Yeah. Actually walking through the mall. And 

Stephen: before COVID? I don’t actually remember.

Ryan: Yeah. 

Stephen: Sorry, I’m just kidding.

Ryan:  I was walking through a mall and I felt my phone go off in my pocket and I pulled it up and it said up inside you’ve won B just from American Eagle Outfitters and I, what the hell? And I turn to my right. I’m literally standing in front of American Eagle Outfitters.

So I walked inside, showed her my phone. I said, I just got this alert on my phone. She was like, Oh yeah, here you go. Here’s a hundred dollars. Get whatever you want in the store. 

Stephen: That’s interesting. Yeah. 

Ryan: That’s a reverse geo-fencing, that’s them reaching out to me. They knew I was in proximity and since something somehow I’d have to figure out how, I don’t know if it was through Foursquare or something. I don’t know. But it says something to my phone and I’ve got a hundred dollar free shopping spree. 

Stephen: That’s cool. Yeah. You gave me all sorts of new things that are going to buzz around. I had a bunch of other things I needed to do. Now I’m not gonna be able to, I’m not going to be able to get to do it. I’m going to yeah, cause I’ve been fascinated with ads, so hey man I’d actually love to do this with you again, at some point I’d love to. Like I said, I’m really glad that I met you as well. We’ve always been on the same page, like on so many different levels.

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. 

Stephen: So how can people get a hold of you?

Ryan: Yeah, if they go to a, it will take them directly to my LinkedIn profile. I encourage them to click the pronunciation of my name, or they can call me (817) 455-9263 and I’ll answer the phone anytime for somebody and I’d be glad to answer any questions. No pressure here. I’m just happy to help people. 

Stephen: That’s awesome, man. All right. Cool, man, appreciate it again. I’ll talk to you later. 

Ryan: Thanks Stephen. Appreciate it, man.

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